19 Replies Latest reply: Jul 16, 2010 1:06 AM by tjcnewyork RSS

So what do the new MVC points cost?

pgreen822 Silver
Currently Being Moderated

I am currently in the middle of a one week, gulf front 2-bedroom stay at Crystal Shores.  I cashed in 150K points last year, just two days before the new points requirement would have changed to 240K.  I see that one week with these exact accomodations next year will cost 4,250 points.  Does anyone know how much this would cost if I purchased into the new program?  What do the maintenance fees look like?

Thanks!

  • Re: So what do the new MVC points cost?
    tjcnewyork Platinum
    Currently Being Moderated

    "I see that one week with these exact accomodations next year will cost 4,250 points.  Does anyone know how much this would cost if I purchased into the new program?  What do the maintenance fees look like?"

     

    Greetings pgreen822

     

    Welcome back, I recall answering one of your questions about MVC participation in redeeming points.  Marriott integrated MVC resorts into Hotel Categories exactly a year ago making it possible to extend Redeem 4 Get the 5th Night Free across all brands except Ritz Carlton. Kudos for seizing a 2Br in Crystal Shores @ 150K MR points.  That was a steal!

     

    You'll have to contact Sales about the cost for the new program.  Keep in mind that Marriott is no longer selling resort-based weeks.  You'd be buying a deed into a land trust (not Crystal Shores) with a maximum number of points deeded to the trust.  According to several sources, Maintenance Fees are $.40/point.  So, 4,250 pts x $.40 = $1,700.00 Maintenance Fee annually, not including the mortgage.

     

    If you are really interested in buying a 'legacy week' so that Crystal Shores is your 'home resort', it's worth calling Marriott Resales @ 866-682-4547.

     

    Hope this is helpful.  Good luck!

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: So what do the new MVC points cost?
    klaus29 Silver
    Currently Being Moderated

    tjc  1700 us maintenance fee for 1 week this  is 243 us per  day.

    you  know how  many interval gateways you get for this money.

    yes you know!!

    and  you know  how many  nights you can book with 1700 us.

    via marriott .

    yes you know!!

    and the investisment is  how  much?

    yes you know!!

    but  i dont know 

    this true  canstatation  is again  for  make me  friends

    with  the staff  from mvc and marriott  rewards

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: So what do the new MVC points cost?
    pgreen822 Silver
    Currently Being Moderated

    Thanks for your responses (both times!)

    Here is where I struggle with this program.....If what you are saying is indeed correct in regards to the new maintenance fees, $1700 is just WAY too much money to pay each year when you figure the mortgage amount (for 4K points) could be $20K or more.

    With websites like VRBO or Redweek where owners are looking to unload their weeks just to cover their maintenance fees, why would I invest $1700/year PLUS the assuming $20k-$40K in the mortgage to buy the points?  It just doesn't make sense.

    My parents bought 2 weeks at Barony in Hilton Head.  When they bought, the trade-in value was (I believe) about 110K per week.   Those points don't get them as far today and no adjustment was made for them.

    I used to be a Marriott Rewards point tracker, but now needing 240K points for a 2 bedroom unit, that goal is just plain unreasonable unless you travel A LOT for business.

    Finally, I don't think I want to buy into a program that has made two DRASTIC changes the last few years.  I understand the economy is crappy and they are trying to get more creative, but in my opinion, the changes to this program just put Marriott back into the same category as all of those horrible timeshare programs that we hear about.  They used to be better than the rest..... not anymore.

    I love their resorts, but I am no longer loyal to just Marriott.  This vacation we are on at Crystal Shores used up our remaining points.  I wish I had more faith in their program.....

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: So what do the new MVC points cost?
    klaus29 Silver
    Currently Being Moderated

    pgreen882

    you are member from interval.you can stay loyale to

    marriott.  take a interval gateways from marriott.

    for 350 to 600 euros  for 1 week you  dont get points

    but eqn  nights. or  make a exchange  i pay in europe

    149 euros and for asia 179 euros for 1 week.

    for be interval member you have to be owner from

    1 timeschare week. thats  all.

     

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: So what do the new MVC points cost?
    vpplayer Platinum
    Currently Being Moderated

    "...the changes to this program just put Marriott back into the same category as all of those horrible timeshare programs that we hear about.  They used to be better than the rest..... not anymore."

     

    +1.

     

    The cynic in me is almost hoping that Marriott will maintain separation of MVC from MR.  As MVC worsens, I'd not want them to take MR down with it.  I know opinions and experiences differ, but I still think MR is a pretty good loyalty program.

     

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: So what do the new MVC points cost?
    vpplayer Platinum
    Currently Being Moderated

    klaus:

     

    That has been a good use of the Getaway program in the past, but I'm not so sure about it going forward.  I too have found reasonably priced Interval getaways at MVC properties based on a little patience and flexibility on my part.  A nice bonus about those is that you do get nights toward elite status even on a getaway.

     

    However, my fear is that MVC is going to grab up the inventory that becomes available at the properties and make them available exclusively to the points program vs. giving to Interval, except for the lower seasons.  The availability for getaways (and even direct exchange under the old Interval process) may become significantly less -- we'll just have to see.

     

    Based on my circumstances, I am hoping my 2011 summer vacation will be accomodated by an II Getaway, so I'll be starting to check in earnest around January.

     

    Edited to follow-up:  Perchance I found a Getaway on II to Marriott Timber Lodge (1 Bdrm + K) 17-24 June 2011 for $616.  Not quite the platinum season but the MVC points redemption for that week would be 2175. 

     

    Getaway Value Metric: $0.28 per point. 

     



    -- Edited by VPPlayer at Jul 12, 2010 6:35 PM PDT

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: So what do the new MVC points cost?
    klaus29 Silver
    Currently Being Moderated

    VPPPLAYER

    I JUST  HAVE A LOOK   FOR  THE GATEWAYS IN THE USA

    INBELIEVLE  THE LOW PRICE. IN FLORIDA MANY 2 AND

    3 BEDROOMS ARE ALREDY GOOING YOU  CAN FIND 

    1 BEDROOM ,I SPEAK ONLY FROM MARRIOTT HERE

    BUT  YOU DONT HAVE ONLY FLORIDA IN THE USA I SEE

    IN ATHER STATES MANY 2 AND 3 BEDROOMS AVAIBLE.

    FOR  THE GATEWAYS YOU HAVE TO GIVE NATHING NOT

    1 WEEK. AND  THIS  HAVE  NATHING TO DO WITH THE NEW

    POINT  SYSTEME.

    FOR 2011, BOOK EARLY YOUR GATEWAYS ITS  SAME BEVORE.

    INBELIVLE   DEALS. 

     

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: So what do the new MVC points cost?
    tjcnewyork Platinum
    Currently Being Moderated

    "my fear is that MVC is going to grab up the inventory that becomes available at the properties and make them available exclusively to the points program vs. giving to Interval, except for the lower seasons.  The availability for getaways (and even direct exchange under the old Interval process) may become significantly less -- we'll just have to see."

     

    VPPlayer

     

    Due to reduced availability for direct exchange, Wyndham timeshare owners depositing their weeks with RCI, Wyndham's timeshare exchange company filed a Class Action Suit and recently reached settlement on June 22, 2010:  RCI Weeks Exchange Program Settlement.

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: So what do the new MVC points cost?
    vpplayer Platinum
    Currently Being Moderated

    I make the assumption that MVC and Interval have already coordinated on the points program to each other's satisfaction.  I wouldn't expect any pushback from II.   

     

    Is anyone seriously considering a class-action suit...?  I think it's a bit too early, but admittedly I may be affected less than many.

     

    To the topic question, it appears on the TUG that the point cost will settle around $10/point, plus maintenance fees.  Don't know if there will also be a one-time up-front fee for new owners as well.

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: So what do the new MVC points cost?
    pgreen822 Silver
    Currently Being Moderated

    VPPLAYER

    The $10 is close.  I talked with a Vacation Club rep at Crystal Shores and the points actually cost $9.20/each with a maintenance fee of $.40/year per point.  So, in comparison, the week that I booked at Crystal Shores (which is a Gold week, not platinum) would have been 4,250 points.  That is $39K for the unit and an astounding $1700/year for maintenance fees.

     

    With this new program, it will be next to impossible to pick up prime weeks at prime resorts since owners will be able to book first.  Interval won't be used anymore for those people that buy into this "land trust."

     

    Please let me know if anyone has any follow up questions.  I actually learned a great deal.

     

    As a finance person, I always try to look at the break even of an investment.  Those $1,700 in maintenance fees makes the breakeven look a long time off, considering I could book full weeks at other timeshare resorts (via Redweek.com or VRBO) for about that same about without having to shell out almost $40K. 

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: So what do the new MVC points cost?
    tjcnewyork Platinum
    Currently Being Moderated

    "As a finance person, I always try to look at the break even of an investment.  Those $1,700 in maintenance fees makes the breakeven look a long time off, considering I could book full weeks at other timeshare resorts (via Redweek.com or VRBO) for about that same about without having to shell out almost $40K. "

     

    Excellent points. I like the thinking and hope to tap into what you have learned.

     

    According to MVCI.com, a typical 2 br 2 bath villa at Crystal Shores has a fully loaded kitchen with service for 6 but has enough beds and sofabeds to accomodate up to 8 people.  At Marriott.com,  a villa at Crystal Shores rents for $444 per night.  If 8 adults are sharing a villa at $50/night that's not bad at all.  For a week, shelling out $40K to own plus annual maintenance fee of $1700 and upwards looks like a significant value - even if you rent it out privately.  Since the destination program has no home resort, are you able to rent your points?

     

    Since the majority of legacy weeks are 2 br 2 bath units, the value - at least intuitively - is on par across legacy weeks.  However,  where and how do get this value and level of accomodation on an African safari?  Will beasts of burden deliver a fully loaded kitchen with service for 6?  What about the amenitites of a W/D, housekeeping, high speed internet and DirecTV?  All of these are line items on a legacy week budget.

     

    This is not to challenge the premise, but how do you attach a $ value and determine a break-even point?

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: So what do the new MVC points cost?
    pgreen822 Silver
    Currently Being Moderated

    Good points, TJCNew York

    First of all, obviously one of the big benefits of the program has to do with potential exchange value.  The idea of a safari sounds incredible.  I have always been a believer that those who really "use" the system can certainly benefit from it.  However, let's just look at the financials for a moment.

     

    I agree that it could be difficult to assign a breakeven-value.... and maybe that could be because I don't have the free cash right now to invest in one of these properties.  The way I look at it is this.... let's just look 10 years out.  If I were to spend $40K (and not finance it, i.e. no interest expense) for a week and then pay maintenance fees (and assume they increase 3% each year), my total out of pocket cost for the next 10 years would be approximately $60K.  If I take one week of vacation per year, that would equate to spending (on average) $857/night over that timeframe.  Obviously the longer you look out, the cheaper it becomes because all I would have are the maintenence fees.

     

    My feeling is that the maintenance fees (at $1700) are close to 3-4 nights rental cost (at $444/night).  So really, you are paying $40K to get 3+ nights "free."  Again, I think the value of this program probably lies more in the exchange.  But then again, how do you know if there aren't good deals out there to book your own African safari?  As I mentioned before, as long as there is a strong secondary market to book units on websites like Redweek.com or VRBO, it just doesn't seem like it makes sense for me to commit to $60K over the next 10 years with Marriott.  Obviously this could change if the economy turns around.  I am not saying I am right, but this is just my humble opinion right now.

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: So what do the new MVC points cost?
    tjcnewyork Platinum
    Currently Being Moderated

    "as long as there is a strong secondary market to book units on websites like Redweek.com or VRBO, it just doesn't seem like it makes sense for me to commit to $60K over the next 10 years with Marriott. "

     

    I've never used Redweek.com or VRBO, how does the transaction get executed and what fees are involved?  Do you also pay an additional guest fee so that II adds the party to the reservation?

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: So what do the new MVC points cost?
    pgreen822 Silver
    Currently Being Moderated

    You can view timeshare rentals for free and if you want to reserve, you need to pay a membership fee to Redweek (maybe $15 for 12 months).  As a few examples, you can rent 2 weeks ocean view at Crystal Shores right now, this summer for $3000 ($214/night).  The majority of the one week rentals this summer are about $250/night...... not too different from paying the annual maintenance fee WITHOUT having to shell out $40K up front.

    Albeit it was not as nice as a Marriott, last summer we staying 7 nights ocean front in a 2-bedroom, full kitchen unit at Wyndham Seawatch in Myrtle Beach for $1200.

     

    You are renting direct from the owner (who most of the time can't vacation that year and wants to make enough money to cover their maintenence fees plus a little).  In order to have a secure transaction, Redweek offers an independent escrow company where you pay $75 and they hold the money in escrow until some period after the stay to ensure that everything was legit.

     

    There are no guest fees and II is not involved.  It's just owners booking their weeks at the resorts, can't go, then try to rent out that same week and just transfer the name of who is using the unit that week.

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: So what do the new MVC points cost?
    tjcnewyork Platinum
    Currently Being Moderated

    "Edited to follow-up:  Perchance I found a Getaway on II to Marriott Timber Lodge (1 Bdrm + K) 17-24 June 2011 for $616.  Not quite the platinum season but the MVC points redemption for that week would be 2175.

    Getaway Value Metric: $0.28 per point"

     

    Good update and metric, VPPlayer.  What would it cost to rent per night at the MVC Owner discount rate?  Are MVC owners still entitled to that rate?

     

    Let's try this scenario.  If an owner has multiple weeks, and enrolls all of them, does the owner get 800 bonus points per week enrolled or 800 bonus points max?

     

    Assuming it's 800 bonus points max, and the owner resides in a state where MVC is registered to sell D-points, anyone know how much does the (2175 redemption points needed)-(800 bonus points)=1375 points differential cost in $US?

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: So what do the new MVC points cost?
    klaus29 Silver
    Currently Being Moderated

    insider

    you dont neet  redweek or others,  35 prozent  discount

     for  all villa  in  orlando , for  rent  per  night,

    with marriott.com ,from  179 US  1 bedroom  villa,

    or  a  2 bedroom  villa  from  249 US , with a credit

    from  50 us.  have a look on insiders lobby.

    NO INVESTISMENT  NO MAINTENANCE FEE

    FOR  ME  THIS IS  THE ANSWER

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: So what do the new MVC points cost?
    tjcnewyork Platinum
    Currently Being Moderated

    "You are renting direct from the owner (who most of the time can't vacation that year and wants to make enough money to cover their maintenence fees plus a little).  In order to have a secure transaction, Redweek offers an independent escrow company where you pay $75 and they hold the money in escrow until some period after the stay to ensure that everything was legit.

    There are no guest fees and II is not involved.  It's just owners booking their weeks at the resorts, can't go, then try to rent out that same week and just transfer the name of who is using the unit that week."

     

    Very helpful info.  A family member has a 3br Grand Chateau week on deposit w/II that will expire in November that none of us are able to use.   How does Redweek work on the owner side?


    If this week is enrolled in Vacation Points which is all that is possible for New York State residents, will the week retain it's II status or can it be traded for V-points and thereby extend its usability?

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: So what do the new MVC points cost?
    vpplayer Platinum
    Currently Being Moderated

    Thank you TJ.  It occurred to me that the point system does demystify somewhat the value comparison since you can now assess the equivalence of a given week in points and the rental cost be it an II Getaway or a owner rental, such as one can find in Redweek.  The value metric is meaningful if one was considering a rental vs. an exchange, and could shed some light whether the points system is really a good option for you.

     

    High-end example: Back to the Timber Lodge.  Over New Year's: 2-bdrm rentals are asking $4200 for the week.  The point cost is 8,175.  This translates to $0.51/point, rather above the $0.40/point annual maintenance fee for those points (if i understand the formula correctly), but without the initial investment.

     

    I checked several other high demand weeks at TL between 1 Dec and 31 Jan, and saw no significant variance -- all were between $0.48 and 0.53 per point.

     

    Mid-range (Aug-Sep): ~$0.46/point

     

    On the low end (October):  $0.46/point

     

    So what does this mean, other than I have too much time on my hands?  It's an insignificant sample size upon which to extrapolate a firm conclusion, but the consistency suggests that MVC knew very well what they were doing when establishing the relative point values, at least for this property. 

     

     

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: So what do the new MVC points cost?
    tjcnewyork Platinum
    Currently Being Moderated

    VPPlayer

     

    In addition to TUG, MOTM and Insiders, there is a huge underground of MVC owners sharing information via e-mail.  Earlier, an owner at MOW attended a sales presentation and shared the following:

     

    • Legacy owners who enroll, can convert one or more weeks to Destination points. These D-points may be redeemed ONLY for offerings in the World Vacation Collection such as tours and cruises, as well as resort locations deposited in the "D-points inventory" by other legacy owners.
    • Legacy owners will NOT have access to the "weeks" in the D-points inventory that originate in the "land trust". For example, unsold weeks from resorts in phased development like Marco Island, Oceana Plams and Kauai Lagoons.  Legacy owners will NOT have access to any other resorts in the pipeline.  The only way a legacy owner can tap into these resorts is to a buy a minimum number of D-points, which is currently 1000.
    • Here's the clincher.  The legacy owner pays $9.20 per point plus $.40 cents per point annual Maintenance Fee.  To exchance, there is an additional $199 internal exchange fee which replaces the II exchange fee.  Excluding the $9,200, a minimum balance of 1,000 D-points will require nearly $600 in fees annually for an exchange.  
    • Once a legacy week is converted, the owner can use these D-points  to redeem time at the resorts in the D-poiints inventory.

     

    Again, since I am a NYS resident, Marriott is hamstrung and cannot make an offer which would enable me to confirm.  Does anyone know if the above information is credible?

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

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