I realise this isn't travel related, but I just had to share our astounding referendum result, we in the UK voted to collectively walk into the void.
I can't believe it. Watched all night in growing horror.
The world today just became a little more small-minded, insular, self-obsessed and poorer.
I apologise for the collective responsibility I share. I'm now away for the weekend at the Leeds Marriott where the free Corona flows between 5:00-9:00 and will at least have the opportunity to drown my sorrows.
Gutted, utterly gutted...
I woke up to the news as well brightlybob. Quite unbelievable. What on earth will happen? And who will be the next PM?
Current PM David Cameron has confirmed he'll stay in place for a few months, the other side of that must lie Boris Johnson, former London Mayor. I'm gutted we left because I really believed in a federated European state that could finally banish the spectres of war and poor government, now it's never going to happen and I so hoped our generation could leave that legacy to our kids, it's gutting that won't happen now...
I agree 100%. We have spent and and still do spend a lot of time in England vacationing. Been just about everywhere over the years , and actually own 3 timeshre weeks there. I love the country and people there it almost feels like a second home. We have been know to fly over 3 times a year just to vacation. You will never find a more resliient people. I see another 1,0000 years coming regardless of whatever way the vote went.
I'd say this is the wrong move, but at the same time I understand it. Governments in Brussels and Washington have been getting more and more distant and arrogant in the eye of the people. It's the Marie Antoinette effect. And us little people are just getting fed up with everybody involved and lashing out.
Not necessarily a good thing for us to be doing, but expected. We're in for a wild ride for the next decade, I think. But if you think you've got problems, keep in mind that we will either have Trump or Hillary as President.
I am so shocked. I tried to stay up for the results but fell asleep watching my phone. It is an epic move! I have about 16 friends that live there. Only one voted leave. So I was sure it would be a stay. I guess most of my friends are like minded people so my view was skewed. Maybe I should get some GBP while the rate is decent!
Brits are pretty amazing and resilient. I have all the faith that things will be just fine!
Well brightlybob, after having a good nights sleep (partly assisted by drowning my sorrows last night) I awake to find that far from feeling better having slept on it - I am still GOBSMACKED! It is like a bad dream. You are right, Boris will probably be PM. Whoever could have imagined that a couple of years ago? It was joke enough that he became Mayor of London, but ................ The trouble is, anyone who thinks he is just a buffoon is very much mistaken. He is a very, very clever man. And a very clever buffoon is a dangerous person.
As an aside, we went to our local races yesterday. We are annual members and there is a group of us who always meet there, so it is a social as well as sporting occasion. One of our number arrived later than usual. He said he had been buying and selling shares online all morning to get "bargains" because of Brexit and the time ran away with him. You can imagine the reaction he got from the rest of us!!!!!!!!!!
Well, brightlybob I am sure you have seen the latest news.
A petition for a second referendum which has 1.5 million votes, so has to be considered. (Is this democracy I ask myself?)
The EU commissioner has resigned, so we will have to get another one as we are still a member - until we are not still a member.
Jeremy Corbin expressing his disappointment at the leave vote, even though he was a declared Euro sceptic and was very quiet in his support for staying.
Jeremy's own MPs tabling a vote of no confidence in him.
The Scottish question and Nicola Sturgeon - enough said.
Boris saying there is no rush to sort out the leave stuff - but the EU saying get on with it NOW!
AND............. the next PM potentially being Boris!
Ye Gods! What have we landed ourselves with? I was always proud to be British, but feel very low at the moment.
There has been an odd consequence of this for me. I have always believed in our voting system, and have never divulged which way I have voted to anyone. Mrs Tommo and I don't ever try to influence each other at all. But after this travesty, I am feeling compelled to tell anyone that will listen that I voted to stay. Which I did.
I too am shocked and stunned at the result. I went to bed on Thursday thinking it might be close. At 4am I woke up and just thought I'd check the news quickly before I went back to sleep. I never went back to bed - I just watched with growing horror and distress. What angers me so much now is when I talk to people who did vote 'Leave', many of them have admitted now they voted as a protest vote but never actually expected it to be the winning side - what were those people thinking? I'm still struggling to deal with this as I thought Remain was the only viable option.
And to those who say that Britain will survive, the point now is that it very well might not, at least not as Britain. It'll be England (possibly with Wales), and Scotland. NI voted to Remain so that opens up the question of whether they will want to join with the south who are in the EU. And, at time of writing, there is another petition ongoing with over 100,000 signatures, to declare London independent from the rest of England. And if England is separate from the rest of the Union, it will be with a more insular and negative outlook than the one we've had in my lifetime so far.
Well, those you know who voted leave as a protest vote should be ashamed of themselves. A protest vote was simply not appropriate in this situation.
When Jeremy Corbin was put forward as a nominee leader of the Labour party, the proposers did it to stir things up. People voted for him as a "laugh", "protest" etc etc. What happened? He has become leader of the Labour Party!
Anyone who voted leave without having the the courage of their convictions has got all they deserve in my opinion. Sad for the rest of us though!
I Woke up this morning hoping as I stirred that in fact yesterday had just been an alcohol induced nightmare that would be dispelled by a couple of elka-seltzer and a whopping hangover... Alas it wasn't to be... We had indeed walked off a xenophobic cliff yesterday and so today I find a world where:
1. Our continental friends want us to leave ASAP no matter how much pain it causes (us)
2. Our PM has resigned, though I'm no fan of Cameron he was at least a genuine one-nation conservative and a lot better than all his predecesssors - Ian Duncan-Smith, Michael Howard, William Hague, john Major and Maggie Thatcher (shudder) and the Johnson-Gove duality that is likely to follow
3. The opposition leader subject to a no-confidence motion which will almost certainly succeed in the Westminster party triggering the convulsion of a national labour vote
4. Our EU commissioner has resigned leaving us without experienced representation in the commission
5. Scotland has started the process for a secession referendum, one that will almost certainly split the UK asunder
6. The £ has plunged 10% against the USD, it's biggest one day loss since the Nixon shock
7. The UK stock market has lost 5%, a bigger loss than any day during the 2008 convulsions
8. The German stock market lost 6% on the day, the French 8% and the Italian 12%
9. World stock market losses on the day exceeded $2TRILLION
Yesterday was easily the unhappiest political day of my life and as a lifelong labour (to my USA friends left-wing) supporter I'm well used to electoral disappointment. Let me recount:-
1983 - lost
1987 - lost
1992 - lost
1997 - won, after one and a half decades, phew
2001 - won
2005 - won
2010 - lost
2015 - lost
and now, the most important plebiscite of my life
2016 - lost
Our vote will lead to a country that's smaller (minus Scotland) and poorer, a continent that's less secure and a message to the world that Britain is looking inwards. Not a great legacy for our kids...
Here in DC, one can only vacillate between being unable to think/talk about anything else, trying to come to grips with the reality of irrational, self-defeating public behavior in representative democracies; being taken aback by the unexpected success of the brazen mischief makers, being speechless , trying not to overreact to the global proliferation of uninformed and counterproductive nationalism, fighting despondency , and feeling immensely sad for my UK colleagues, for the EU, and for the global economy.
I have been watching the events in the USA with a growing sense of foreboding. The problem is a remote government that isn't perceived as understanding the concerns of the wider population who then fall prey to demagoguery. Brexit is the most damaging outcome of recent times. I do hope our American cousins don't fall for the same trick...
I did not realize that the disaffection with the establishment, that we have experienced in the USA is also so prevalent in the UK. Obviously, our Tea Party, Bernie, and Trump experiences are similar to the motivation of the Brexit phnominom fans. We will stick it to our leaders without caring about our own best interests. At least it will feel good, until we start losing jobs.
Perhaps, the next vote will be to shat down the Chunnel!
phctourist, I watch your US election situation from up here in the great white north with interest and although I scratch my head with the nonsense that is being spouted, I am comforted that even if elected, the president could not accomplish much of what is being said because you have constitutional arrangements and the three bodies of government that protect against such eventualities. The British situation appears to be unprecedented, they may have held an election that constitutionally they can not implement without breaking up their country.
peymanagement I'm a bit less optimistic than you. I believe that if Trump is elected he will also carry Congress. (I believe the same if a Democrat is elected.) Either way there are not many checks or balances when the same party controls both Houses and the Presidency. It is also probable that the winner will then get control of the Supreme Court which is currently 4-4.
I am afraid! Very afraid!
Here in the US, we get the opportunity to make bad decisions every four years, two if you want to include our 8% approval-rated Congress (makes me wonder who those 8% are and why the think our politicians are doing a good job ). At least there is always a chance to change heart at the next elections.
What makes the vote in the UK so different is now that the decision has been made, there seems no possibility of going back, despite all the evidence of "buyer's remorse" that is popping up this weekend. I realise there is more to happen before this becomes a done deal, but I don't see anyway to get back on top of the cliff after jumping off it.
God save the Queen (and the rest of the British population). I'm not sure anyone else can.
Well brightlybob it is getting worse and worse isn't it.
Not only do we have 2 main political parties, they are now both split into 2 as well. Corbyn is in the mire, and it looks like resignations from his shadow cabinet. Both parties will (probably) have to have a new leader, but who is there on either side who can pull their respective party together again?
The Brexit leaders say there is no rush to get the ball rolling, but the EU are saying "get on with it - now!"
On top of that the Brexit leaders appear to be backtracking on what they said during their campaign.
It would appear a lot of people seem to be regretting that they voted out. Too late!
Unless Jeremy resigns his national army of Corbynistas will keep him in but he'll be fatally wounded to the UK electorate, indeed his total inability to hold the labour heartlands to Remain has probably done that.
We really are free falling right now.watch out on the markets tomorrow...
Ok, reading this topic over the weekend, there seems to be a unanimous support for staying in the EU.
I will put my head above the parapet and expect to be shouted down from the rooftops. I more than likely will not log in again, as I expect vitriol to be forthcoming (only Tommo knows my email address, so I may get a blast from him privately).
Although I no longer reside there, most of my family still live in Boston, the town topping the brexit league with 75% voting out, and a turnout higher than the national turnout.
The 2011 census figures show its population has grown by more than 10 per cent to 65,0000, most of that increase being from Eastern Europe.
That, of course, does not include the legion of migrant workers living five-to-a-room who prefer not to fill in the census forms.
The council reckons the figure is more like an additional 10,000.
Indeed, the census is so unreliable that the Home Office has recently despatched a special population research team.
This increase in population has put an unbearable strain on local services. It can take 2 weeks to get a Doctors appointment.
This is an extract from someone posting on a local forum in Boston, and one I completely agree with.
I know only what I voted for, and that is to return the sovereignty of my country to the state that I enjoyed in my youth. For me, it was a choice of Great Britain, or little britain as a minor parish in an out of control monolith. Parliament will decide what we agree to as we are once again a unitary power beholden to no other nation. How parliament is constituted will depend on the will of the people, and as such, I see the need for an early general election to sort out the present chaos. Let us make our own laws and stop worrying about the fetters of a single market or any other European pretension. We voted for a single market in 1975, and we were duped . We should not fall into that trap again. If we mess up this God-given opportunity, history will be unforgiving.
One other thing, Of course the markets are spooked, but FTSE only lost 3.2% on Friday, not the 5% quoted, and is currently down 1.2% today. The Nikkei ended up 2.3% overnight.
Looking at my pension account this morning up 2k since the start of last week, SIPP down 0.23%.
Thank you, and goodbye!
Hey trevfour. You won't get any vitriole from me, either on here or privately! You are fully entitled to your opinion.
Now then, I know Boston in Lincolnshire well, and understand completely why the people there voted so unequivocally for leave. The town my vote comes under was the 5th highest leave vote, for the same reasons.
Eastern European immigration in this part of the world is a huge issue. I fully accept that and I am personally not happy with it at all. Nothing against Eastern Europeans you understand, it is just the numbers and how the face of my region is changing.
But my problem with the referendum result is that many people seem to have voted on one issue alone, whereas there were many, many to take into account.
But don't go. There is no need to just because you feel you are in the minority on a non travel related topic.
As i have stated i don't have a dog in this fight ( with deference to my friend Chuck) but i do have to say that Cameron's statement was very statesman like when he said the people have spoken and now the opposition should make it work . Good luck to our British friends as this unfolds .
Because I'm from Eastern Europe ( Bulgaria ) and often fly to London ...
Especially in London I think people from India, Pakistan and various Arab countries are much more than Eastern Europeans . It is also interesting that in the village of my grandmother in Bulgaria currently live maybe 5 English families.
I don't know what you are saying Snail5930. By Eastern European we mean Polish etc. We have nothing against the Polish etc, absolutely nothing at all. It is all a question of numbers and there being huge pockets of foreign nationals in relatively small towns. Boston is an example, as is Great Yarmouth. In my village we have families of several nationalities, who have integrated very well. But there are not large numbers.
FIrstly, trevfour, don't leave over this thread, it's not even travel related. I don't agree with the vote you took but I 100% agree with your right to take that view and vote as you did. The plebiscite was granted by 5/6 of parliament and this and thus had a cross-party overwhelming mandate. It was well past time the country voted on it as the EU is a very different animal from the common market approved by 2/3rds of the electorate 40 years ago. I saw the immigration argument but felt it was one of many and looking at all the EU did in the round the pros to my mind easily outweighed the cons. I was shocked I could be so of line with my fellow citizenry. I lost the argument. You won. You have no need to run away. And to prove it I "liked" your post
Now to Boston... What a small world It is. To our American compatriots Boston in the UK is a small, sleepy market town tucked away in the corner of the fens and surrounded by prime arable land. To come onto this site dominated as it is by Americans and then find 2 English that know Boston well (you and Tommo781 ) is amazing as I am actually a Boston boy, born and bred. I Lived there till I was 22, my mother, stepfather, sister and maternal aunts, uncles and cousins still do. I visit several times a year. I have certainly seen the changes and heard my mothers, uncles, aunts and cousins complaints. They all voted Leave and we had some interesting exchanges on facebook during the campaign. I congratulated them on the outcome yesterday, and do so to you today. I don't think the vote made the world a better or safer place but it was a clear vote against a remote governmental structure and a great excercise in democracy. I'm proud we did it. I'm not happy with the outcome but democracy is the will of the people and the people have spoken. I was in the minority.
So I end this post as I started the thread, gutted at the result, and end this sentence as I started this post, imploring you trevfour not to leave. I hope to see much more of you around insiders!
Now to Boston, I can't believe two ex residents from a small town in Lincolnshire can be members of a forum such as this. And even Tommo781 knows the town. Did you go to Boston Grammar, 'floreat Bostona, ne cui secunda sit, laborandum!' and all that nonsense!
Edit, and pluto77 !!
Well, trevfour, having lived in East Anglia all my life, Boston has regularly been on my way out of the "bump" that is my part of the country. Also, I have friends who used to live there, and in my days as a roving fraud investigator, I had a case there once.
As to brightlybob, he is the original Boston stump! And only those who know Boston will know what I am talking about!
And to cap it all brightlybob we lose the Euro footie as well! To Iceland for heaven's sake, whose manager is a part time dentist.
brightlybob I feel your pain, but if I trust what I have been reading as "the fallout" and the affect on GB, I think the long-term prognosis is a much better country, a stronger feeling of national pride and independence, a stronger economy, a middle-finger to the bureaucrats in Belgium, and a Union Jack that will wave higher than ever before. Give it time - and experience the resurgence of your country.
Thanks for your support pingree and I'm sure we will come through this, poorer, more introverted, but unarguably more democratic, and certainly having shown complacent gravy-train politicians that it is dangerous to take the people for granted. The whole country needs now to accept the result and get leaders to carry out the peoples will. Easier said than done...
Just when you think things are quieting down, now, due to the drop in the value of the pound, France has overtaken the UK as the 5th largest economy in the world.
Rue [sic] Britannia
En route home after a (terrific) conference not far from Rome. (More on the travel aspects, and a small gallery of photos, here: Frascati, Italy (not far from Rome))
As is often the case, it was immensely strange, almost disorienting, as a DC-area resident, to ignore July 4th (nah, no fireworks in Italy on the 4th - heck, no massive tourist infusion either). And, while my family at home was celebrating Independence Day, most of the substantive public policy topics at the conference were dominated/colored by Brexit shock, despair, and grieving by our European colleagues.
I was reminded - at every meal, coffee break, and discussion - that (apparently) the majority of academics at UK colleges and universities are not British. (That's consistent with my experience. While it's true I know SOME British academics teaching at UK schools, most of them are NOT UK natives.) The future is uncertain and anxious for the schools and the scholar/teachers. Sure, this is a very small slice of the population, but it doesn't paint a pretty picture....