55 Replies Latest reply: May 8, 2016 8:58 AM by tommo781 RSS

Charged for smoking when I didn't

landc Member
Currently Being Moderated


On March 25, 2016, my wife and I stayed at the Residence Inn in Research Triangle Park, NC on her Rewards points. I have been a smoker all my adult life, but haven't smoked indoors, ANYWHERE, for 20 years. Hopefully you can imagine my surprise on the Monday we returned home to find that Marriott had tied up $480 of my checking account through my debit card. I called the hotel to find that they were accusing my of smoking in the room. I asked to speak to the manager but was told that she was at lunch and would return my call once she got back at 1:00 pm. I waited until 2:30 pm and finally called her back myself. She informed me that "I had smoked in the room and that they would not be able to rent it until they 'fumigated' it. I attempted to explain to her that all they could have found was 6 cigarette filters in the trash, because I could find nowhere to dispose of them outside after I had finished smoking except to throw them in the landscaping. She made it abundantly clear that I was guilty and quite unprofessionally told me she would check with her staff and contact me on Tuesday. Well at 4:45 pm on Wednesday she finally called me back and told me that I was going to be charged $250 because the staff said there was a "strong" smell of smoke in the room. I again tried to explain the situation to her, but she had no time to listen. I told her that I would have to take my problem higher and she informed me that it would not help because the Customer support at the webpage would simply take my information and send it to her. This whole experience has not only cost me the $250 in charges, but also has cost me $96 in overdraft changes on my checking account. Our "free" room has cost $346. I am getting increasingly frustrated since we have spoken to the hotel manager, spent an email to customer support and previously put a post somewhere on this site which I can not find. At this point where do I go and what do I do!!!!

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  • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
    jm1991 Gold 3 Reviews
    Currently Being Moderated

    This is one problem that many smokers may encounter. They smoke a couple cigarettes a day, even if they smoke outside the smell lingers on their clothes and to the room they stay in. They may be so used to the smell that they can't smell it themselves but non smokers will definitely notice the strong odor left in the room. I'm not accusing you of lying but when management finds cigarette buds in the trash, marijuana residue, or signs that there was smoking in the room, there most likely was and the person just doesn't want the charge obviously. Whether smoking happened outside or inside,  you still have to take into consideration that the room probably reeked to a non smoker and still had to deodorize the room. That requires chemicals, shampooing the carpet and using airfreshners which some people are allergic to, so the room must have been put our of service for a day or two to neutralize the odor. I would much rather deal with a smoking charge than with a guest checking in to the room and making a huge deal about the smoke smell.

     

    As for the money being tied up, theres usually a disclaimer about using debit cards and that is why credit cards are a much better option. They hotel imposed the fees they warned you about and not their problem you didn't have enough funds and went into overdraft.

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    • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
      landc Member
      Currently Being Moderated

      I'm sorry but I must disagree. This sort of "junk" science has been the cause my child and spouse have never let me hold my granddaughter in the last four years. How about I suggest a few ideas that could be used to alleviate your problems.

      • Hotels reimplement  smoking and non-smoking rooms.
      • Hotels establish different rate for smokers and non-smokers up front.
      • Hotels ban smokers, not just smoking, from their properties.

      If you think this property uses the excessive charge to "fumigate" the rooms that they claim a patron has been smoking in, check the negative reviews on TripAdvisor for this property.

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    • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
      phctourist Platinum 20 Reviews
      Currently Being Moderated

      I agree with you jm1991 with one exception.  The Marriott ban is directed against smoking in rooms and not smokers in rooms.  Perhaps the policy needs to be revised to indicate that the smell of tobacco smoke and not the actual act of smoking is banned.  I never thought about the subtleties of this policy before.

       

      Apparently landc should have left the cigarette stubs outside the hotel!

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  • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
    tommo781 Silver 8 Reviews
    Currently Being Moderated

    Harsh though it sounds, I have to agree with jm1991.  I too used to smoke, and there is nothing worse than an ex smoker when it comes to hotel rooms.  We can smell any tobacco residue more acutely than lifelong non smokers.  The main problem seems to me to be that you put your cigarette ends in the bin in the room.  They would have certainly left a lingering smell.  All credit to you for not wanting to litter the grounds, but unfortunately your consideration was your downfall on this occasion. 

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    • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
      landc Member
      Currently Being Moderated

      There is little like feeling you are guilty without being heard.

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    • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
      ramoneur Platinum
      Currently Being Moderated

      "and there is nothing worse than an ex smoker when it comes to hotel rooms.  We can smell any tobacco residue more acutely than lifelong non smokers"

       

      I find this to be true;

      I used to smoke a lot; now I have quit (well, sometimes in China it is hard to never smoke any cigarette; especially with customers (all older generation decision makers smoke here!) and when under the unfluence of alcohol); so generally I am an ex smoker.

       

      I have found that I have a very keen sense of smell when it comes to tobacco smoke.

      My wife doesn't smoke. Has never smoked.

      When my neighbor is outside, in his garden, smoking a cigarette;

      I can smell it indoors(!) in my bedroom.

      My wife can't smell it.

      Proof is simple: I had here look outside the window when I smelled it late in the evening:

      "yes, he's smoking; how can you smell that?"

       

      I personally think that a lot of people sometimes are overreacting to cigarette smoke

      (I am not talking about people with serious allergies)

      but I also found that the loudest complainers often are ex smokers.

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  • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
    landc Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    Just to let you folks know, my wife suffers from allergies and is sensitive to smoke, that is why I have stopped smoking in the house, car, restaurants, hotel rooms, etc. for over 20 years. If you would like to read her response to this, check TripAdvisor for this property. And if you think I influenced her opinion, you have no earthly concept of my wife. I love her because she is a STRONG woman who doesn't need someone to tell her what she thinks. We have been married 46 years and I am looking forward to another wonderful 46 years!

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    • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
      peymanagement Platinum
      Currently Being Moderated

      Hi landc while I can not agree with you on some of your comments, I do respect you for coming back on and posting your rebuttals. I did stay at RI you mentioned a couple of years ago on a hockey trip, It was ok, not great, but ok. I smoked once in my life when I was 8 years old with a buddy, puked for two days after and never touched one again. I guess I was lucky.

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      • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
        landc Member
        Currently Being Moderated

        Thank you. The property wasn't bad and most of the staff was very nice. It was mainly the day manager that I have the problems with. If Marriott is going to have an extra charge for smoking in the room, which I can understand and agree with, at least the manager should do an investigation by contacting the client not just assuming guilt.

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        • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
          tommo781 Silver 8 Reviews
          Currently Being Moderated

          No-one on here disbelieves you landc.  But I really think this is a situation that it would be best to learn from and move on.  No, the hotel cannot prove that you smoked in the room without CCTV.  But then again you cannot prove that you didn't, and unfortunately you left cigarette ends in the rubbish bin, which would undoubtedly have smelled.  What would be the point of the manager contacting the guest?  Any guest who had been smoking would surely automatically deny it.  I don't think it was anything personal; the manager was implementing hotel policy and there was definitely evidence in the way of the cigarette ends, and no doubt there was therefore the smell of tobacco.  I believe that in itself meant they had to "fumigate" the room, thus the charge kicked in.  I am sure our resident legal eagle brightlybob would be able to put it in a nutshell.

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          • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
            ramoneur Platinum
            Currently Being Moderated

            well, if it is his word against theirs, it does give me a foul taste in my mouth;

            since the hotel has all the leverage here, it seems to be an injustice that they can weigh their power/word in to "win" this argument;

            it's like a sumo-wrestler sitting on a small child, just because he can

             

            it would be a nicer solution if the hotel proposed a 50/50-taking of the "damage";

            and would agree it to be "unprovable, so the truth is somewhere in the middle";

            this would give both parties a way "to save their face", i.e.: "to retreat from the battlefield with honor in tact"

             

            I am furthermore very sceptical about the actual costs of "de-smoking" a room;

            if I was forced to pay this, I would like to receive a specification and proof of the costs, and I am pretty sure it would give me enough ammunition for my argument that this is - at least partly - also a model for the hotel of making some extra money;

            480 dollars seems to be a lot to me and this is a serious amount of money for them to just "claim" without some evidence...

             

            last, but not least, if the victim here truly is "convicted of a crime he did not commit",

            do you really think he will not tell others about this really bad experience?

            how much damage will you think this will do to the hotel/brand-name in the future?

             

            ...maybe a rule should be made (of course not communicated publicly) that the first suspected transgression is logged in Marriott's CRM/software system, and that only a second or further transgression is eligible for fining?

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            • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
              tommo781 Silver 8 Reviews
              Currently Being Moderated

              All I was doing was to try to see it objectively from both sides ramoneur.

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              • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
                ramoneur Platinum
                Currently Being Moderated

                ofc

                didn't imply you weren't ;-)

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            • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
              peymanagement Platinum
              Currently Being Moderated

              Re the cost of de-smoking a room. You have to factor in lost revenue when you look at how the hotel comes up with these penalties.  The most likely time that smoking is actually detected is when patron walks into the room and gag's and goes down and gets another room. That room will lay vacant for at least that night.

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              • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
                tommo781 Silver 8 Reviews
                Currently Being Moderated

                You are right peymanagement.  I know of hotels in the UK (not necessarily Marriott) that state they will charge one night's room cost plus cleaning costs, because the room is not lettable (is that a word?) for a night.

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            • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
              techie Platinum 7 Reviews
              Currently Being Moderated

              It is not going to do any damage to the brand because there are a lot of people who will seek out hotel that ensure the rooms do not smell of smoke.

              Without passing judgement on this particular incident, I have seen times which there absolutely have been people smoking in a Residence Inn and they did NOT fine the person, which was infuriating.

               

              Marriott generally places ashtrays at just about every entrance, even right close to the entrance (which is annoying).  I find it very difficult to believe that the original poster "could not find" a place to put his butts.  Did he smoke on the 'patio" or balcony of the room and hence bring the butts in?  Where did he go that there were not ashtrays? One is supposed to go to the "designated smoking area", not just "anywhere outside".  I have never been to this particular Marriott, but I have been to many dozens, and each and every one of them has a huge number of ashtrays outside.

               

              Again, without any disrespect and solely based upon the ashtrays I see at every Marriott I've been at, including the one I am at right this moment, it is very difficult to not find an ashtray.  Live and learn.

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              • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
                landc Member
                Currently Being Moderated

                I would hope that there would NOT be any damage to the Marriott brand because that is not my intent. I, and my wife, have had so many wonderful experiences at Marriott properties that I will stay at another in a heartbeat. As a matter of fact my wife planned a small convention at the Marriott property at the Cincinnati airport and the people and facilities  there were absolutely fantastic. The properties that I have stayed in over the past few years have all had trashcans, some with ashtrays, at the alternative entrances to the property and that is where I disposed of my cigarette filters when I was done smoking. If this property had had the same setup, we would not be having this conversation.

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                • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
                  tommo781 Silver 8 Reviews
                  Currently Being Moderated

                  Sorry landc but I must remind you of something.  You told us on this thread that your wife had posted on TripAdvisor.  So I (and maybe some others) looked.  She actually said:-

                   

                  “Hotel Scam”

                  I definitely would not recommend this hotel. My experience was that my stay turned into a $350 scam. I used my Marriott points for a free night. But my husband, who smoked outside without seeing a clearly marked Smoking Area, decided that rather then throwing the butts into the shrubbery like many other smokers had done that he would field strip what was left and throw away the butt in the trash can in our room (all 6 of the butts). However, when the cleaning service found the butts (with no tobacco attached), they reported that smoking had taken place in the room. And rather then checking it out the manager put a $480 charge on our card without informing us. When my husband spoke with her she claimed there was a strong tobacco smell in the room. This was clearly a LIE since my husband did NOT smoke in the room. And, as a non-smoker myself, I noticed no tobacco smell in the room ever. The lesson learned from this is that even so-called respectable chains are open to scamming guests. Good-bye Marriott."


                  The final sentence clearly indicated that there was an intent never to return to Marriott, and calling a member of staff a liar underlined that.

                  I have had odd problems with individual Marriott hotels in the past (haven't we all with any brand) and have tried to sort them out without resorting to review sites, but the vehemance with which the TA report was posted, did say that the intent was to damage Marriott.

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                  • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
                    john_thai Platinum 8 Reviews
                    Currently Being Moderated

                    Tommo, thanks for finding that.

                     

                    To the OP, if you smoke outside then walk in with smoke on your clothing and then put butts in the trash can then the room is going to smell like smoke. No, you didn't smoke in the room. But the room smelled like smoke and there were several butts. It's not a scam for management to assume that you smoked.

                     

                    Since you live with a smoker you may have become "nose blind" (to cite the commercial) and not realize just how strong that odor can be. But if I walk into a room and there is someone else in the room who has smoked recently I can smell it.

                     

                    I don't know the laws where you were staying. In many areas the laws say that not only can't you smoke in a building but you can't smoke within X feet of a door or window. I worked in an office in California where there were so many windows that smokers had to walk out into the parking lot to smoke.

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                    • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
                      tommo781 Silver 8 Reviews
                      Currently Being Moderated

                      No problem @john_thai.

                      I just got a little irritated by the assumption that the hotel should know that the OP hadn't smoked in the room (despite the incriminating evidence) then the report on Trip Advisor.  I will tell you something about smoking.  I do not smoke at all nowadays.  But every morning I walk to my local shop in our village (a proper UK small village) for newspapers, milk and anything other bits and pieces.  I walk down a lovely country lane, and frequently meet dog walkers, with whom I stop and have a chat, and make a fuss of the dogs.  A couple of them smoke, and may be holding a cigarette while I am talking to them.  When I get home, my OH will know I have met a smoker, because of the faint smell on my clothes.  And I will have been outside in the fresh air for probably 30 minutes!  It lingers - for ages.

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  • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
    AndrewT Community Manager Marriott Associate Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    Hi there landc,

     

    Please send me a direct message with your Rewards number and I will pass this along to the appropriate team for clarity.

     

    Thank you!

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  • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
    brightlybob Platinum 10 Reviews
    Currently Being Moderated

    I seem to be a little late to this thread but I'm afraid all I can do is echo the replies of jm1991, Tommo781, peymanagement, ramoneur and wesleywc.

     

    I Was a smoker for many years after Marriott brought out this rule and like you I smoked outside the hotel. If a smokers post was available I'd place my dog-ends there, if not I'd chuck them into the undergrowth but as a lawyer I'd never take them to my room and leave them in my bin, that would be clear evidence I'd smoked in the room, even though I hadn't.

     

    Whilst we all believe you didn't do the dirty deed, the evidence on the balance of probabilities is against you. Dog ends in the bin will cause that revolting ashtray smell to fill the room. As a former avid smoker I could never detect the stench my habit caused. Now nearly 4 years after quitting it's all to plainly apparent to my nasal passage. Leaving half a dozen butts in the bin will fill the room with that stench. Of course as you haven't actually smoked in the room all that's really required is the removal of the "ashtray" and a good airing but the hotel isn't to know that and will carry out a deep clean since they don't want nazi-type-ex-smokers like me calling them out on the faintest whiff!

     

    Sorry, whilst I do sympathise I think the best you can hope for is a goodwill gesture here. And a lesson learned - don't take those dog-ends back to your room.

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    • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
      nmballoonist Platinum
      Currently Being Moderated

      Dog-ends?  Amazing the things you learn here, particularly from those members across the pond.  Does sound better than butts!

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      • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
        tommo781 Silver 8 Reviews
        Currently Being Moderated

        nmballoonist, surprisingly enough I knew exactly what brightlybob meant!  The other common term used for a cigarette end in the UK is a "*** end".  I don't know the derivation of either.

         

        On a slightly different note - pronunciation differences between us. I was picked up on my pronuciation of pecan, as in the nut, when I was in the US once.  Over here we pronounce it peacan, with the emphasis on the first sylable.  I was told to prounouce it pecarn, with the emphasis on the second sylable, otherwise I was actually saying the word for something a gentleman uses in hospital when bedridden!


        EDIT!!!!!


        Well, I just don't believe it!  One of my words has been automatically replaced by ***.  Which just goes to show the difference between the different sides of the pond.  The word I put was the initial letters of the following 3 words.  Foxtrot, Alpha, Golf.

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        • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
          brightlybob Platinum 10 Reviews
          Currently Being Moderated

          FAGGING AND **** (the pointless censorship disguises F-A-G-S)

           

          Yes, good old ****.

           

          Actually in England *** has two meanings,

           

          1. Slang for a cigarette; and

           

          2. The servitude of a 1st year pupil to a senior boy at a Public School  - and this takes some explaining.

           

          Firstly a public school in Britain is not what Americans refer to as public school. Our UK school system is hopelessly convoluted. We have 2 systems, the state system and the private system.


          What you Americans refer to as public schools represent our "State Run" system which consists of:


          1. "Local Authority Schools" where they're run and funded by the local council; or

          2. "Academies" where they're run independently but funded by central government; or

          3. "Grammar Schools" which are selective and run semi independently but funded by local councils;


          What you Americans call Private schools are in the UK referred to as "fee paying" and consist of:


          1. Public Schools. These are very old and enormously expensive institutions. Pupils "board" by staying there for an entire term at a time. There are no half-terms, just 3 holidays a year but all are lengthy with Christmas and Easter holidays lasting a month each and the summer holiday lasting about 10 weeks. Out of holidays the pupil attends the school boarding there during both the week and weekends, with all food and accommodation provided as part of the enormous fees; or

          2. Boarding Schools. These are fee paying schools where the pupils stay similar to the Public schools but are neither as historic nor typically expensive; or

          3. Private Schools. These are fee paying schools that offer both day and boarding places; or

          4. Independent Schoos. These typically offer no boarding facilities at all with just day places.


          Finally we add to this appallingly confusing mix our "Faith Schools" which are run by a recognised religious body where tutelidge includes a compulsory daily religious element and are funded by the religion. They represent an element of the state sector when funded in part by a local council but a part of the fee-paying sector where the religious funding body charges fees to parents. The most common faith schools in England are CofE (Church of England) schools - typically ran in conjunction with local authorities and the combined CofE and Catholic schools represent about 30% of all primary and secondary schools.


          Now, from that scholastic diversion we can finally fish out our second definition of "****". They were 1st year secondary school school pupils at Public schools who were expected to spend a year in daily servitude to a final year pupil performing such tasks as laundry, boot polishing, and fetching and carrying. As these Public Schools admitted the top echelon of British society "fagging" was used to help the pupil appreciate the tasks undertaken by the lower orders which they would then spend their adult life supervising.

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          • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
            ramoneur Platinum
            Currently Being Moderated

            so we're not able to post Grandmaster Flash's lyrics?

            I just love GM&TFF5;

            so much better that the B&H-rap music of today.


            (...)

            now your manhood is took and you're a maytag

            spend the next two years as an undercover f'a'g

            being used and abused, to serve like hell

            til one day, you was found hung dead in the cell

            it was plain to see, that your life was lost,

            you was cold, and your body swung back and forth,

            but now your eyes sing the sad sad song

            of how you lived so fast and died so young

            (...)


            going completely off-topic, this is really my favorite part of their lyrics in "the message";

            especially after my two daughters were born:

            (...)

            a child is born with no state of mind

            blind to the ways of mankind

            god is smiling on you but he's frowning too

            because only God knows what you'll go through

            you'll grow in the ghetto living second-rate

            and your eyes will sing a song of deep hate

            the places you play and where you stay

            looks like one great big alleyway

            you'll admire all the number-book takers

            thugs, pimps and pushers and the big money-makers

            driving big cars, spending 20s and 10s

            and you'll wanna grow up to be just like them, huh

            (...)

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        • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
          randomname Platinum 7 Reviews
          Currently Being Moderated

          Yeah, unfortunately editor (whether electronic or human) don't consider context.  We're not going to have many words we can use in the future, as more and more become politically incorrect.

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        • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
          techie Platinum 7 Reviews
          Currently Being Moderated

          I understood what you meant.  But it must be on the Marriott list of bad words.

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          • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
            tommo781 Silver 8 Reviews
            Currently Being Moderated

            There is a first world war song "Pack Up Your Troubles in Your Old Kit Bag".  I'm going to copy the words here and see what happens.

             

            Pack up your troubles in your old kit-bag,

            And smile, smile, smile,

            While you've a lucifer to light your ***,

            Smile, boys, that's the style.

            What's the use of worrying?

            It never was worth while, so

            Pack up your troubles in your old kit-bag,

            And smile, smile, smile.

             

            EDIT!!!!

             

            See, I knew that would happen to the Foxtrot Alpha Golf word again.

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    • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
      randomname Platinum 7 Reviews
      Currently Being Moderated

      I agree with Bob on this one.  And even if the stubs didn't prove that smoking had occurred in the room they would at a minimum have introduced the odor of burned/smoked cigarettes into the room, which is nearly as bad as the smoke itself.  Almost nothing smells worse than an ash tray.

       

      P.S.  This from someone who smoked for 20 years, but has now been off them for 30 years.

      (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
    ramoneur Platinum
    Currently Being Moderated

    for your comparison, the fine in the Courtyard in Shanghai I am currently staying is 500 RMB

     

    this is about 77 dollars right now;

    it is also one of the more expensive fines I found here in China

    (usually the fine is about 200 RMB)

     

    please note that Courtyards here in China are much more "upscale" than they are in America (as far as I have heard; didn't go to the USA yet to heck myself);

     

    almost all "Foreign Hotel Chains" enforce a non-smoke policy, whilst still offering smoking-rooms (they almost have no choice here in China);

    in some cities (for example Beijing) there even is a general non-smoking rule;

    however, the "more Chinese" hotel chains have a very liberal enforcement of this, meaning it is "sort-of" allowed to smoke in the room, as long as you don't overdo it (so, out of open window, in batch room, a few and not a pack, leave windows open when you evacuate the room, etc.).

     

    I am not a rabid anti-smoker, so I am ok with it;

    but sometimes it irritates me (literally), that the room smelled a little bit like smoke

    ...and if you're unlucky with the smog situation (like in Beijing), opening a window only makes it worse :-(

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
    ramoneur Platinum
    Currently Being Moderated

    I would like to *bump*

    c.q. re-address,

    my mentioning of the unequal "power-balance",

    if it is just "their" word against "his"

     

    I was quite happy with the mental picture I sketched:

    it's like a sumo wrestler sitting on a small child just because he can

     

    why isn't this argument used in any further replies?

    am I wrong?

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

    • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
      tommo781 Silver 8 Reviews
      Currently Being Moderated

      ramoneur I think brightlybob (our legal expert) summarised the legal side of this splendidly when he said:-

       

      "Whilst we all believe you didn't do the dirty deed, the evidence on the balance of probabilities is against you. Dog ends in the bin will cause that revolting ashtray smell to fill the room. As a former avid smoker I could never detect the stench my habit caused. Now nearly 4 years after quitting it's all to plainly apparent to my nasal passage. Leaving half a dozen butts in the bin will fill the room with that stench. Of course as you haven't actually smoked in the room all that's really required is the removal of the "ashtray" and a good airing but the hotel isn't to know that and will carry out a deep clean since they don't want nazi-type-ex-smokers like me calling them out on the faintest whiff!

       

      Sorry, whilst I do sympathise I think the best you can hope for is a goodwill gesture here. And a lesson learned - don't take those dog-ends back to your room."

      (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

      • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
        ramoneur Platinum
        Currently Being Moderated

        just because you pass all checkpoints for being right, gives not you the right to enforce it

        i.e.: if somebody is jaywalking and you have a green light, it does not give you the right to run your car over the jaywalker

        because this is to the letter of the law, and not the spirit

         

        the spriit of the law is to equalize rights amongst citizens, regardless of money/power/class/etc.

        a big corporation running over a client, just because they are right, may be to the letter of the law

        but I refuse this is in the spirit of the law

         

        of two citizens are arguing, and it's "one's word" against "another's", then it should be a tie; and damages should be 50/50

         

        if I really was innocent

        like the claimant claims

        I'd play hardball too,

        because,

        if I'd had to pay about a week's nett remainder of my salary (I live in Holland; we pay up to 60% taxes...);

        I would like to have a specified bill of cleaning;

        a lists of found "evidence"

        detailed pointing out of the small letterings of renting their room

        proof that "found evidence" wasn't "planted"

        who found the evidence, and when, etc.

        etc.

        (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

        • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
          tommo781 Silver 8 Reviews
          Currently Being Moderated

          ramoneur I take it that rant aimed at me is actually a response to brightlybob and not me, as I quoted his legal opinion (and as someone who has been involved with the law I have to say I agree with him.)

           

          Incidentally I don't think there is any need to evidence whether the butts were planted and who they were found by.  The OP freely admits he put them there.

           

          This thread is getting rather unnecessarily hysterical.  the facts are clear.  I am bowing out before I get more ridiculous comments thrown at me, in response to comments/opinions I did not even make in the first place.

          (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

        • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
          brightlybob Platinum 10 Reviews
          Currently Being Moderated

          Well, ramoneur I think you'd do well to read the rest of the thread, but why bother with such trivialities, eh?

           

          The uncontested evidence - remember these are uncontested facts

           

          1. Cigarette ends in the bin

          2. Room stinks of smoke

           

          That evidence establishes that it's likely the room was indeed smoked in. In a civil case all the hotel needs to establish is sufficient evidence of likelihood. It's likely.

           

          It is now for the guest to show a likelihood he didn't. How? Well it's his word, though the video, if it exists, might help establish his bona fides, but still doesn't establish that he didn't smoke in a room where used butt-ends were found.

           

          Showboating wont do the trick, but as a consolation allow me to present you with the Insiders Barrack-Room Lawyer award

          (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

          • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
            pingreeman Platinum 1 Reviews
            Currently Being Moderated

            brightlybob - you've nailed it on all your posts for this link.

             

            Next time, toss the ends into the bushes and make sure no one gets you for littering.

             

            If I had an open bottle of booze in my car and get stopped, I am "drinking" - and arrested for driving and drinking though I may not have sipped from the container at all. Same with the trash can evidence.

            (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

            • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
              peymanagement Platinum
              Currently Being Moderated

              I think you may be mixed up with your laws. Simply having an open bottle of booze in a car will not get one charged with DUI or impaired driving or what ever it is called in your jurisdiction. In some jurisdictions, there is a law that forbids open liquor which, but compared to DUI that is a relatively minor offence with fines similar to smoking in a non designated place.

              (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

              • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
                clebert Platinum 21 Reviews
                Currently Being Moderated

                True about open container violations versus DUI.  But smoking in the hotel room wouldn't be criminal, it would be civil.  So you've got a much lower burden of proof!

                (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

                • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
                  peymanagement Platinum
                  Currently Being Moderated

                  Open container is also not a criminal charge. Snoking in non designated places here has fine of 1000$

                  (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

                  • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
                    clebert Platinum 21 Reviews
                    Currently Being Moderated

                    peymanagement, open container is a criminal charge in my state.  But the maximum fine is only $500 and/or 30 days in jail, plus restitution. 

                    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

            • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
              tryt53 Alumni Steward Platinum 5 Reviews
              Currently Being Moderated

              pingreeman and brightlybob, I have to agree with you both. I too am an ex-smoker, and if I checked into that room that smelled of cigarettes(and I would smell it), I would ask to be transferred to another room and complain loudly. Anything that makes the room need to be fumigated (such as leaving cigarette butts in the ashtray), should not be paid for by the hotel, but by the client that caused the smell.

               

              And as for having rooms that can only be rented to smokers, as the number of overall traveling number seems to decrease over the years, that makes little business sense if you have rooms that you can only rent out to a smaller and smaller portion or the population. I appreciate other's rights to smoke, but when that interferes with my right to not smell the second hand smoke, or to have to sleep in a room where I smell it, that is when I think it needs to be enforced. IMHO.

               

              pingreeman, us oldies probably remember when this all came around the first time on this site, years ago. It pit a lot of people against each other, and that is a shame.  I believe we all have the right to voice our opinion here, and hope we all remember the importance of respect to each other. 

               

              Above all, we are fellow travelers, with a love of travel, and apparently a love of the "gift of gab"

              (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

          • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
            ramoneur Platinum
            Currently Being Moderated

            thank you for the award ;-)

            it's just that I can't stand injustice

             

            I know this to be fundamental character flaw, that will result me getting a heart attack somewhere in my fifties;

            and yes, the advice of just talking the damage and moving on is really the best one;

            but this is just how I tick

             

            since the "legal system creep" started in the 19th century, which eventually allowed companies to become a "legal persons" in a state (and yes I know there are also pragmatic and real benefits to this),

            I have always felt that in the end there always is an inherent injustice of "biological people" fighting with "legal entities" looming over every dispute,

            because, in 95% of the cases, if a big corporation decides they want to win, you will lose, because they WILL win

            a corporation will almost ALWAYS win, even when they should not,

            because a corporation is not a biological being, and has unlimited time (even infinately scalable parallel time of teams of laywers) and money;

            whereas humans always will have flaws like stress, dead and taxes (well maybe taxes, but they have a Panama-route...);

            if they can not KO you in a boxing match, they will just go the distance of not 13 but 1300 rounds...

             

            therefore, in my personal opinion, corporations should be very reluctant about using their weight and power, if it comes to a dispute with a single, "normal" person;

            "with great power comes great responsibility"

             

            ...and yes, I also know that "real justice" is an illusion,

            in the absence of an alknowing, benevolent and judging God,

            we do the best as we can

            here on this crooked Earth,

            in the darkness of infinite space and the coldness of endless expanse;

            to solve disputes about somebody's fence being 12cm too high, someone's daughter having been raped and some countries being bombed (or trade-blocked) into oblivion

            (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
    peymanagement Platinum
    Currently Being Moderated

    I am surprised that this post got so much action, usually they just drift to the bottom of the page into MRI wasteland.

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
    psudad Alumni Steward Gold 3 Reviews
    Currently Being Moderated

    Usually, these hotels have security cameras at all the entrances.  I would have suggested they review the footage at the entrance outside which you smoked, extinguished the remainder, 'field-stripped' the remainder of the tobacco and brought in the cigarette butt and disposed in the trash.

     

    They would either have to tell you, yes we saw it and you are right, however, we have to take the room out of service for a day because the smell those cigarette butts caused.  And, trust me, they do stink.  I have never smoked but grew up in a house of smokers and can smell it a mile away.  Rather than bring them in your room, leave it outside and go to the front desk to ask where to dispose of them.  You could then have possibly negotiated a settlement.

     

    Or they would have to tell you that, actually, those cameras don't work and security is pretty limited there.

     

    Either way, good luck and, hopefully, lesson learned.  I know the addiction, having seen it in my family.  But the times, they are a changing, and the rules and restrictions are what they are and are there to protect those who choose not to smoke, who are allergic or for whom that smell ruins a hotel, restaurant or transit visit for them.

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
    muppetwrangler Platinum 8 Reviews
    Currently Being Moderated

    Last year, I checked into a Marriott property where I could smell that someone had been smoking in the room.  I walked around the room to make sure the smell was in fact in the room (as opposed to the hallway) when I saw that someone had taped a plastic bag over the smoke detector on the wall!!!!!  Housekeeping had obviously missed both the smell and the hanging plastic bag!!!  

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
    ramoneur Platinum
    Currently Being Moderated

    20160506 - non smoking at Mettiott.JPG

    this is the most severe fine I have yet seen

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

  • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
    ramoneur Platinum
    Currently Being Moderated

    btw landc,

    are there any developments?

    has anything been done to "settle" the "difference of insight" in this case?

    (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

    • Re: Charged for smoking when I didn't
      mustanggt Platinum
      Currently Being Moderated

      Every time I read something else about this subject it makes me cough.  Isn't this a nonsmoking insiders chat room?

      (For each location tag, you will be guided through a 3-step process to add (1) a city and a state or a city and a country, (2) a Marriott brand, and (3) a Marriott hotel.)

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