Is anybody else a member of Marriott Vacation Club? Have you faced the problem of what to do with unused and unusable points?
It seems that it is almost impossible to use up all the points in a year, and after carrying them forward I'm still left with unused points. When the Marriott Vacation Club point were sold to me I was told that you could convert up to 50% into Marriott Rewards Points in any one year, which then wouldn't expire. This wasn't made clear when we bought into this scheme, not was it made clear last week when we went through another MVC Sales session. In fact we were specifically told it would not be a problem and that it would be the smart thing to do.
Now it appears that not only is there a maximum limit, there is also a minimum limit - you have to convert a minimum of 250 Vacation Points, otherwise they "Have No Value". If you have less than 250 you can't convert any.
Well they have a value to me, at a nominal cost of $10 / Vacation point they have a value of $250, plus maintenance fees which have already been paid.
This leaves a very bad taste in the mouth about this scheme, and personally I am very unlikely to commit any further cash to the MVC scheme.
This was one of the MANY issues I had a problem with regarding converting my MVC status to the "Destinations" program. First, the points I get for my weeks (under the Destinations program) wouldn't be enough COMBINED TOGETHER to get me into another resort. I, as well as many, many others, would have to BUY more points every year to make it work besides giving up my two weeks to get one I might like. Why would I do that when I can stay in the Rewards program and use my points for a stay easier AND CHEAPER than being in the Destinations program.....and stay wherever I want. Second, the points, if not used, expire after two years. At this time Rewards points have no expiration unless there is inactivity for a two year period.
Rest assured, you are one of MANY who feel the frustration of what Marriott has done to the timeshare program. It is so different today from what we were promised when we originally bought it's shameful.
Tef, I am now a worried man! We have stayed at 3 Hawaii resorts and 1 in California this year and still have over 2000 points left. I'd better re-read the program details to make sure that I don't have a problem here! I am also a bit annoyed with the VC Points programme conversion rate to MR points. The documentation provided at the time of purchase, clearly stated an MR points value for each week ... under the conversion of VC Points to MR Points, the value seems to be less!?!
Good points made....and you have noted another 'issue' that has been raised many times in the seemingly 'less value' applied to the MVC properties that creates a shortcoming, or shortchanging in the minds of owners for the value one gets for the points conversion. It really depends on the property where you entered (bought in to) the program. I know for a fact that my properties are worth less in the Destinations program than staying in the rewards program as a rewards Points member. The majority of properties fall under this shortcoming. So, when you try and 'trade' in some manner, there is always a shortfall in the conversion.....and you have to 'buy up'....at a significant cost....unless you trade weeks from a future year. So, I would give up years of timeshare weeks or spend a significant amount to buy more 'points' to get one week under the current 'Destinations' scheme. It was devised by the person who now is the CEO of the new timeshare division as spun off. It was a great 'devaluation' of loyalty points done by a beancounter......and it sure was 'rewarding' for him.
However, because I stayed in the 'Rewards' program and didn't join their 'Destinations' program, I am now penalized in that I can never exchange into the better properties in the MVC timeshare portfolio. I was actually told this by a timeshare 'representative' who was trying to get me to convert to the 'destinations' program. What he wanted me to do was become an 'elite' member in the 'Destinations' program by buying extra points in the program so I could have enough rolling to get me a first chance at getting into one of the better properties. The cost as he explained it would only be $35,000......for a better 'CHANCE' of getting into a better place. Funny, when Marriott originally sold the timeshare units their BIGGEST selling point was that we would always have an easy exchange to any Marriott timeshare property around the world. My, how they've changed the program. There are about a half dozen Marriott timeshare properties I can exchange into now. The rest I'll never have a ghost of a chance to trade into. Am I angry......you bet.
At least when I bought many, many years ago I received an actual deed for the weeks I own. Now, at least in the States, you no longer get a deed....it's just a certificate that says you own so many shares in a timeshare property that are worth a certain amount of points....and those points expire after two years.
Successful....yes.....for Marriott. For the timeshare owners who originally bought into the 'trade into any MVCI location around the world' opportunity...a boondoggle. I personally don't give two hoots about whether or not Marriott has exceptional financial results around their Destinations program. I, and many, many, many others, care about what we were originally offered, promised and told.....and how the 'game' changed to the detriment of those loyal purchasers.
I think you should try to understand the program before jumping to any conclusions. Let me clarify it a bit since I am a founding owner.
1. The points overlay is an OPTIONAL, ENHANCEMENT to the existing legacy weeks program. You can elect to use it or not each and every year. If you decided not to take advantage of the points conversion, then everything is the same as usual and you vacation just like it was originally offered and sold.
2. The new program offers a world of new opportunities never available before. I challenge you to find a more flexible system in the world! Go look at Hilton, Hyatt, Starwood, Wyndham, Westgate, DUO by Quintess, and compare the product offerings in detail. Yes, I know there is a cost to such flexibility, but the Marriott program provides IMO the broadest and most flexible system in the market. Yes, we know its not perfect and Yes we know its not for everyone and YES it can be expensive. You get what you pay for.
3. I can take my investment in the program and use it in the following ways:
(a) Use my weeks as originally purchased.
(b) Trade my weeks for MR points (I can get about 750K points a year this way)
(c) Exchange my weeks for other worldwide destinations
(d) Trade my weeks for Cruises
(e) Convert to points for use at select Ritz-Carlton properties
(f) Convert to points and take world-wide Tours to such destinations as Africa, Europe, Asia, Latin America, Australia/New Zealand
(g) Convert to points and use for events such as the Super Bowl, MLB Allstar Game, NBA Finals, World Golf Champoinships, etc.
(h) Get 45% off the rental of other MVCI properties just for being an enrolled owner
(I) Convert to points and rent for profit
(j) Gift weeks and point vactions to family, friends, and employees
(k) Buy, Sell, and Rent points at discounted rates
(l) Use my points for stays at Marriott Resorts and Hotels
(m) I can give it to my children when I die
(n) I get lots of MR points just for paying my MF with the marriott visa card
(o) I have received over 3 million MR points just for buying into the program
(p) I have guaranteed vactions for life
(q) I purchased with the prices of 1999. I don't pay 2012 prices.
(r) I can split my legacy weeks into longer stays by locking-off. Essentially this gives me 2 weeks of vacation for the price of 1 week. Bonus!
(s) I can afford to vacation 10-12 weeks a year while inviting family and friends using this program.
(t) I get to reserve my vaction as early as 13 months before anyone else has access to prime inventory.
(u) If I don't want to use my weeks or points in a given use year, I can bank it for next year and have double the vacations.
(v) If I don't have enough points this year to go on vacation, I can borrow up to 2 years in advance and have one huge vacation this year.
These are just some of the highlights off the top of my head.
And BTW: I am NOT a marriott employee or salesman. I'm just a satisfied CUSTOMER!
I'm certainly glad that you are satisfied with the Destinations Program but I'm not quite sure what you are trying to clarify to me. I'm not a founding owner (and really don't know what that is) but guess I'm something different since I purchased (and still own) multiple Marriott timeshare weeks about 10 years before you bought yours in 1999.
Nevertheless, I get, as an MVCI owner, or have available to me as a member, ALL of the things you describe in your post except a trade for cruises and tours (more on that later) and affording to vacation 10-12 weeks a year (I'm retired and can afford to vacation 52 weeks a year if I so choose). I also get all the things described in your post that are not related to timeshare or destinations. (MR points for using the Marriott Visa I am aware of since I spend about $100,000 per year on the card).
The issue I have raised consistently is that Marriott changed the timeshare program as originally sold. The sale points were that the weeks I bought could be used to exchange for Marriott timeshare anywhere in the world that a Marriott timeshare property was located. That's week for week. Period. No upcharge...nothing but the exchange fee (about $99 at the time as I recall.)
Fast forward to the Destinations program launched in 2010. Everything changed. Now, your resort week is valued at a certain number of points. If you want to trade thru Destinations there is a 'chart' (about 60 pages worth of charts) where you find a 'point value' for where and when, what day of the week and so on that you want to trade into. Rarely does the amount trading match up to the points needed for where you want to go unless you own in St. Thomas, Newport Coast or Aruba Ocean Club (at a certain period). So, buy some points or give up a future year for more points now. That's not a week for week exchange as originally sold. Sure, I can trade to the Legacy place in Panama City, FL in hurricane season, but who wants that? Marriott changed the program and didn't even provide the courtesy of grandfathering legacy owners to the week for week exchange. They just watered down the program overnight.
Take the cruises and tours.....if I want to trade future vacation years along with current and past weeks (points) not used it works. I don't think there is a good value to trading away future vacation plans for one 'biggie'. If others do, that's fine by me.
Hope this provides a little clarity around my feelings towards the Destinations Program. I'm glad you enjoy it!
Globaltreker - you must be one of the few who has the "elite" status of being able to trade into the Ritz Carlton and use many weeks of your timeshare units. Yes, I can see how this program would benefit you as a multiple owner. However, there are many of us who have just one timeshare unit (deeded, purchased in 2001) that are not given many points (in our case, it's a mere 2775 destination club pts) and are not able to trade into much of anything. In essence, our units have been de-valued greatly by Marriott, and are not worth anywhere near what Marriott would claim them to be worth. In addition, we're stuck with these units, since selling them is pretty much useless, since we can't get much, if any, for them, even though we paid a premium price for them. And although all owners have the option of selling their points if they DO purchase extra points, I found out today from a Marriott sales rep that the point benefits do not transfer to another owner (unless it is an heir) - so a new owner doesn't get the benefit of using the points for anything (ANYTHING) other than for a resort. Although it seemingly has worked for you, we are EXTREMELY unhappy with this program, and feel that Marriott has really screwed over many of their owners.
You are correct that Luxury Residences (Ritz Carlton) are only available to those with Premier and Premier Plus status. That amounts to those with 6500 and 12000 Destination points or equivalents. However, it also means that people paid a lot of money to get to that status. For example, I've spent over $80K for my timeshare and points and I'm making the best of it. I wish I bought resale but that was before I knew anything about timeshares.
Even though you're resort only trades for 2775 points, you can rent points from other owners and book where you want, for however long you want. Most owners will rent their points from anywhere from .50 per point and up. If you do this, you won't have to pay upfront fees for the Destination program or be responsible for the on-going maintenance fees.
(v) If I don't have enough points this year to go on vacation, I can borrow up to 2 years in advance and have one huge vacation this year.
I was excited when I saw this--will work perfectly for my 2014 needs (three weeks in 2014 using points from 2014, 2015 and 2016).
I clarified this with Marriott--and they are certain one can only use points from one year in advance, NOT two.
Please clarify, Globaltreker.
To see what points can be used in advance go to this website:
After you enter your owner credentials click on 'Check Availability' in the right hand column. Your owned or enrolled weeks with point values will be there. The future years available to you that you can use for points now will also show. My page shows I can turn my 2015 weeks into destinations Points now for usage.
I am not sure if you are a deeded week owner and have enrolled week(s) or a share owner that bought after they ended the deeded weeks program. I have deeded weeks and so the above descriptive is how mine works. I'm not sure if they allow usage 2 years in advance for 'share purchase' owners.
Hope this helps.
Agree. It is not a scam but, a choice. When I did the last presentation they told me I could say "no". They did not push at all. If you know how to use the program you can really make out. If you use Interval International you can really make out if you go in off seasons. To me, anything not in June, July and August are wonderful.
I just bought into the destination vac club and was told that my Marriott Reward Points are not exchangable for club pts; you can only use one of the 4 possibilities-1) use reward pts 2) use your timeshare 3) exchange for another destination instead of home destination 4) use the vacation CLUB points. I am now worried that this will not work at all. You can either use the timeshare you bought along time ago or use the destination club points. I have ALWAYS had a problem getting to go to places I REALLY want to go. I have tried to go to Hawaii for 6 years and it is never available!! This is what I understood at the marriott vac club point ownership-- as a MVCI owner I have to trade my home timeshare into Interval International and then they will see if there is room for any of the places I want to visit. Interval is doing this for not only Marriott but for all timeshare ownere of different companys; such as Hyatt, Hilton, Marriott, etc; with all of these people ALSO looking then my chances decline to get to Hawaii. With going thru Marriott only I have a much greater chance to go to where I want to go as there is no trading in your timeshare into Interval and interval trying to please the millions they have as customers. After reading alot of disgruntled customers of Marriott Vac Club Point owners I am VERY worried that I am doing the wrong thing with buying into the Club Points; H-E-LLLLLL-PP!!!!!!!!!
If you are worried about doing the wrong thing, cancel the contract. I believe you are within the 5 days or 10 days or whatever it happens to be.
I've had great success with the points. so far with my points, I've been able to book 2 - 10 day vacations to Kauai. 2 years ago, I was able to book a 13 day vacation to Maui. If you want to discuss this more, I'd love to. The points program wasn't well received but as more people learn how to leverage it, it becomes great.
One thing I would say is if you buy, buy the minimum amount of points. I believe that to be 1500 points. Then, you can rent whatever points you need every year from other owners. If you want to discuss more, let's chat over at vacationpointexchange.com
You have 10 days to cancel from your date of full deposit. You can still cancel!!! We went to the same presentation in Orlando on May 4th! We did get sucked in, then I did some research, and cancelled today. So much negative stuff - rarely anything positive. It only seems to benefit those owners who own multiple units, waterfront unit owners, etc. who have alot of points that they can use to trade with. It is a ripoff and Marriott has really greatly de-valued OUR unit with this program. We are NOT willing to pay another premium price for 10 years, along with a yearly maintenance fee - and for what? We can rent cheaper than buying more points. Also, I found out you can rent points, and you don't have the added expense of the maintenance fees. Although Marriott will tell you that you have the option of "selling" your points, take a look on some websites - and be aware that buyers of point resales don't get all the benefits that Marriott's "Land Trust" owners get -so a new resale points owner can only use the points for a resort (not the cruises, hotels, premium programs, etc) - again, Marriott de-valued the points if you should choose to sell. Why should I be surprised at this? They did it once with this points program, and will no doubt do it again. In addition - what's the guarantee that in 5 years the points you buy will still buy the same resort and have the same "value" that they do now? Don't you think Marriott will (again) screw over the owners and raise the "cost' of buying into another unit with your points to the point that your points won't be enough --- and then you'd have to again buy more points to keep up..... No thank you. I'd rather just either use our unit or save the points every other year and trade every other year for whatever we can get.
Bobbisam - I forgot to mention that we did pay the $595 in 2010 to join the destination points program - but that is IT. They sucked us into buying another 1500 points on May 4th, and then we cancelled today, because it's just way too much money for so little benefit, and there are so many negatives. We won't purchase add'l points, but we can use the program if we want to. I'm all for going back to the 'week for a week' program with Interval. The reason you've probably had a hard time lately with Interval is because Marriott stopped putting their unsold units into Interval's inventory, so now you have to wait for a Hawaii Marriott owner to deposit their week before Interval can give it away. Chances of that are about nil, because anyone owning in Hawaii will most likely participate in the points program. In my opinion, I'd just rather rent a place to go to Hawaii rather than deal with the added maintenance fees every year FOREVER. As I mentioned in another post, Redweek.com has timeshare rental postings, and we've had a nice experience using them when we rented in Hawaii, and no problems.
I missed the origional post so it is a little late to jump in.
MVC has always been hard to use, epically if you are trying to coordinate MVC stays or exchanges, points, and air.
We did not opt for buying points but can exchange for MVC points the advantage being that we save on interval and exchange exchange for MR points.
The big selling point for MVC points use at a fair value is tradeing for mid week, short stays.
I don't know how you amassed all the points but good for you, if you purchased them, not so much.
The one line from sales that still rings in my ears is "If you don't opt in nothing has changed". In my weaker moments I want to put this on Super Marriott's birthday card.
We have done a lot of things we would not have done without MVC buy not an anywhere near a bargain price.
Oh Yes, there was a question We exchanged most of our unused points for trip insurance. Not exciting travel not a complete loss.
I share your pain.
Here is what to do with your leftover points: Marriott Vacation Club Points MarketPlace
This 'MarketPlace' web site points out dramatically what a boondoggle the new 'Destinations' program is. Unfortunate folks making a desperate effort to move/sell/buy points to avoid losing the financial point investment they made before it expires and making offers to sell/buy points for 45 cents a point when Marriott sold them for, what was it at my last meeting with them $11 a point?
Great program Marriott....your loyal customers have to set up a program in an exterior venue and expend extra effort to avoid financial loss because of the 'expiration' clause that brings their point value to ZERO after two years and makes sure that loyalty rewards points do not become a financial burden to Marriott as a Balance Sheet line item. Tough luck Mr or Mrs Customer. That's reality. What a shame.
If you can buy the points for .45 to .50 cents on the dollar, it sounds like a great deal to me! BTW: you can only buy at this price if you are an owner!
I guess you are not an owner if you are attending the presentations and being offered today's prices of $11/point. BTW its not actually 11, its $10.94 to be exact.
Yea, I see a lot of people endure these timeshare presentations desperate for the (15K-20K) MR points incentive or the $125 pre-paid visa card. They give up 90 minutes of their vacation for this or are actually on a PROMO package that lets them experience the property for $300 bucks or so in exchange for 90 minutes.
Don't know what you are talking about "expiration" clauses???? My investment is deeded and does not expire!
"you can only buy at this price if you are an owner". Not sure why a person would buy points they could never use. The real point (concern) SHOULD be about about the folks who are selling points and trying to get back anything they can rather than lose the total value for the money they spent because their points are expiring. I have a different description for those who experience joy in taking advantage of their bad fortune.
I don't attend the presentations.....have no value to me. But, any person can go to the Vacations Club page and divide the price by the points. 2500 points can be bought for $27350. Did the math in my head and said $11 a point and missed by six cents.......
If folks want to 'endure' those presentations that's their business and I say more power to them.
Expiration clauses refer to Destinations points. It's in the fine print. I read it. My multiple weeks are deeded too.
I know your post is 6 months old now. The marketplace is decent. Most people don't have trouble booking using their points. I've got 2 trips to Kauai booked for 2013 and didn't have problem.
As for the marketplace website, the going rate seems to be about .50-.60 a point for rental. If you happen to have 100 points or even 1000 points left over, you can find people to easily rent those from you so you don't have a left over. Most people enrolled in the program have a cost of about .40 per point depending on their maintenance fees. If you negotiate well, you could cover the cost of your maintenance fees and a little extra if you are unable to use your points.
Just found this post. We have had Marriott timeshares since 1998. We have lived overseas most of the last 15 years. We purchased the Destination Points program as it was presented to us as easier to use than Interval with many more options. We were told it would be just like Marriott Rewards. We have been very disappointed with the program. I average 100 room nights a year in hotels. In the last three years I have had little success in using the Destination Point's. We are generally not interested in group tours and cruises. In our attempt to use the points we did explore availability on some of the tours and cruises we might be interested in and it turned out that there was very limited range of dates. We still have children in school and there was nothing during any of the school holidays. I do not mean sold out, I mean nothing on offer in any of the geographical areas we would like to explore: Europe, Africa, Middle East or Asia.
As many owners have shown, this program devalues our timeshares. Even to go back to our home resorts, we need more points than we own. My only success this year if you can call it that were a very out of the way resort for two nights when we visited New Mexico and another trip to Rome where the hotel in the program was far from the city, run down, and cost us a fortune in daily transportation. These nights are not "free" by using points, we have already paid for maintenance fees and taxes on our timeshares, plus program fees. In each of the locations that we found accommodation, it would have been less expensive just booking directly. For us it was a huge compromise as we needed to use the points or lose them.
I never heard of the Marketplace until I found this post. Marriott should be telling owners about it and making it easier to use the points.
Globalmom, I am surprised that you have been unable to find a way to use your VC Points. We have managed 3 weeks in Hawaii, a week in Newport Villas and a week in Williamsburg this year. We own 3 MVCI weeks and traded all 3 for points as we didn't want to use 2 bed units ... we only needed 1 bed units. Admittedly, we had to book well in advance. The points system seems to work well for us ... it used to annoy me when I had to trade a Platinum week for a Silver week when we went out of season.
I am going to talk to a big time class action attorney about Marriott and their deceptive practices, and changing of the rules after millions of people purchased from their timeshare programs.
They have sold for years with the idea of trading through various places to get to go all over the world if available. Example is that, exchanging with Interval International has had great availability all over the world for years. I have traded to Aruba 10 times with no problem in January, a very popular time of year.
The availability through II has been cut dramatically because of the new points program, which causes you to buy more points (huge prices) or use your next years points which devalues the following year. I talked to someone at Interval, and they told me that Marriott availability has been greatly reduced because of their changes. You basically can only go where you bought your week, and that is not why I bought.
This has been a big windfall for Marriott and a bad program for all owners. They changed the rules midstream and we have no recourse.
Marriott "intentionally" changed the value of the purchase I made, and I am very angry. I want my money back and more for being lied to, and I am reading from many of you the same sentiment. This is the first time I have been to this site to hear from so many, the dissatisfaction in your minds. Let's get together and make Marriott pay for their indiscretions. Respond please if you will join my efforts.
happyno! - Was there any progress? Did you speak to an attorney? Did you file a class action?
I recently purchased another Marriott week in Lihue, Kauai (was there on an Interval exchange, and while it is a hotel conversion and not a new property, we loved it there, so looked into availability since they are building a new property onsite - checked third party broker and Marriott resales, and realized the resale prices were really low and we could buy a deeded week [my preference], so purchased through Marriott resale since there was a MR points incentive and the property came with the annual MR points allotment) - anyway, long way of saying - as part of the documentation there was disclosure of lawsuit(s?) regarding the Destination Points program. I've received no information about any class action lawsuit(s) and I am a current owner - although maybe this is so since I did not joint the Destination Program (no interest - but that is another discussion). However, I do feel my weeks have been devalued since the inventory for Marriott properties with Interval is clearly greatly reduced so there are fewer opportunites to exchange for Marriott properties, and the rewards points needed for MVCI properties is quite high, so even my higher level week points don't get us a week at any MVCI property.
i am looking to "rent"/buy 1875 vacation club points for use in 2016, anyone interested?
Message was edited by: CubsFan10
Hey cubsfan10, I want to give you a warm welcome to the Marriott Rewards Insider forum! It's here that members may share experiences, perspectives, photos, and ask questions to a group of experience travelers. Feel free to check out our Getting Started Guide for tips on how to enhance your forum experience. Don't hesitate reach out to me (CariJ) lindseyh, or joshm with any questions or concerns about anything Marriott Rewards or the Insiders site. We comprise the moderation team for the forum and we are here to help.
I have to admit that I'm unfamiliar with Vacation Club Points, and whether it is allowed to rent or buy points from another member. If you'd like clarity on this, I would recommend contacting the Marriott Vacation Club directly at 800-850-6674.